Jonathan Dunne: “How do we change the narrative in the political sphere? Because I don’t hear many people say, ‘this is the solution, you may not like it – it has good points or bad points.’ But I don’t see many solutions. Is it a hopeless case, or… how do we do it?”
Bensman: “Man… I gotta say I think it’s just completely hopeless. I don’t see any permanent comprehensive solution of any kind because the American immigration is so multi-faceted. It’s such a multi-headed hydra, and each head of the hydra has its pros, cons, opponents, proponents that it’s just too complicated for a comprehensive fix. And the country is too divided, politically in the way it views immigration. So I just don’t… I mean, I’ve talked to people on both sides, all the time. You cannot convince an American political liberal that borders are important to enforce as a matter of basic sovereignty because they look at it through a prism of racism. And what do you do with that?
Dunne: I’m sure you’ve had this conversation, where you’re talking to some of our friends on the left where it’s not humane… you’ve taken this journey and overcome all these difficulties.. How is that humane? You’re putting their lives at risk. You’re literally asking usually some of the worst people in society, going ‘hey, you’re now responsible for me for the next 10 days to get me through this really dangerous piece of land,’ and I don’t know how to get through to them. Do you ever get anywhere?
Bensman: No. Never. I never will. I never have. And that’s just the way it is. I’ve got nothing for you on that.
Dunne: I wanted to end the show on a positive note (chuckling).
Bensman: I know, but the split in Congress reflects what I’m talking about. It’s 50-50 in the Senate and they all have very distinctive viewpoints. A humane approach for liberals is letting anyone who wants in, in, on their terms, when they want, on their rules, not following our rules at all. That’s fine for liberals. They’re perfectly happy with that. They’ll say it. ‘Wouldn’t you do it?’
Dunne: I have friends who are totally open borders and there’s strikes and pros to that. I always say, ‘if that’s where’s the policy is then how about getting in legally? It’s like, ‘hey come on in. There’s no restrictions. There’s no anything. If you can get in, you’re in.’ But we have a system that we can at least work in that we’re not making these really poor people pay ten or twenty thousand dollars to a coyote, a smuggler. If we can get to that… we might disagree on border policy, but let’s get to that. If we can get to that… Have you any encouragement for me?
Bensman: No. I’m sorry. Not for any foreseeable future. The country is just too split over this. You won’t be able to get a collaborative enough Congress to pass legislation – not willingly, anyway – that would legalize anybody and everybody who touches the border. There are a lot of Republicans who don’t like that idea. So, I don’t see anything like that happening legislatively. That’s why a Biden will come in and say that, ‘well if the law says a judge just ordered you deported, that ICE has to go and deport you, I’m going to – instead of changing the law – I’m going to have my head guy who oversees ICE tell you you’re not allowed to pick them up anymore. Ignore the court order. All court-ordered deportations? You’re not going to be allowed to do those anymore.’ And that’s what we do. And then the next president comes in and says, ‘hey, that was wrong to end all deportations in America. We’re going to start deportations again because the law says we should do it.’ So as long as we’re able to selectively ignore congressional statutes, you know, this is where we are.